Johnny Herbert: 'Penalty we gave Verstappen won't stop him pushing Norris off track again'

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Max Verstappen clashed with Lando Norris in Mexico because he wanted a Ferrari 1-2 finish at the expense of his title rival, says Johnny Herbert, one of the stewards who handed 20sec of penalties to the Red Bull driver

Max Verstappen Lando Norris

Verstappen and Norris are set to clash again in Sao Paulo

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Max Verstappen was in a “horrible mindset” and fully deserved the 20 seconds of penalties he received in the Mexico City Grand Prix after his “over-the-top” driving, says Johnny Herbert, who was one of the stewards judging the incident last weekend.

But the former British Grand Prix winner believes that the sanction will have no effect on Verstappen’s driving style, and that the reigning world champion will attack and defend just as aggressively at this weekend’s race in Sao Paulo; at a circuit that’s no stranger to track limit and overtaking wrangles.

“Those penalties in Mexico won’t stop Max Verstappen from pushing Lando Norris off the track in the future,” Herbert told sports betting firm Action Network. “I don’t see Verstappen’s driving changing because the number one goal is to stop Norris from closing the gap for the drivers’ championship. We potentially still have a lot of interesting racing coming our way.”

Herbert is a regular member of the rotating four-person stewards’ panel that rules on driving infractions during F1 races, putting him at the very centre of the drama in Mexico when Verstappen forced Norris off track as the McLaren driver attempted to overtake on the outside.

That left Norris ahead of the Red Bull driver who then lunged down the inside at speed, running off track and forcing Norris off with him. Two 10sec penalties — one for for each move — were issued by the stewards, which were served by Verstappen at his first pitstop.

“It’s the guidelines we followed, the teams agreed with our decisions,” said Herbert, who also dismissed accusations of ‘British bias’. “The right decision was made, the 20-second penalty for Verstappen was not harsh. Verstappen’s driving style was harsh, especially when he’s taking a fellow driver off the track. It’s an absolute no-no from me, current drivers, former drivers and stewards.

“The whole intention of Verstappen [in Mexico] was to try to let Ferrari get the one-two finish”

“The attitude in the stewards’ room was really good and our decision was clear because the guidelines tell us what to look at and how to deal with the situation. When we applied the two ten-second penalties to Max Verstappen, we were all in agreement. Always remember, there are four stewards who make these decisions.”

The Mexico City GP followed a contentious race in Austin where Norris had also been forced out wide while trying to overtake on the outside. No penalty was given. That incident triggered a move to revise current driving standards guidelines, which set expectations for drivers, including when they must leave space for others during overtaking attempts.

An updated set of guidelines, which clearly prohibit drivers from making aggressive defensive moves that take them off the track, are expected to be introduced in Qatar, but the penalties applied in Mexico show that stewards aren’t without powers in this area.

They will be under the microscope this weekend in Brazil, the scene of controversy in 2021 when Lewis Hamilton pulled alongside Max Verstappen on the straight leading up to Turn 4, then attempted to drive around the outside. Verstappen surged back ahead in the braking zone and ran wide, off track, forcing Hamilton with him. The Red Bull driver emerged ahead, and was not penalised — which caused some outcry.

Max Verstappen 2021 Red Bull

Will Verstappen replicate his defensive strategies from 2021?

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While last weekend showed that stewards will now issue serious sanctions for similar moves, Herbert believes that it will have no effect on Verstappen, whose eyes are firmly on securing his third world championship.

“The whole intention of Verstappen [in Mexico] was to try to let Ferrari get the one-two finish,” said Herbert. “I think that’s definitely what Verstappen intended and tried to achieve, I understand why he did it but I don’t agree with it, I don’t think many people do.

“I am such a big fan of Verstappen and it frustrates me massively when he drives the way he did in Mexico. He doesn’t need to do it, he’s so good in the cockpit and at this point in the championship, he just needs to stay out of trouble and drive as well as possible.

“When Verstappen goes into this horrible mindset of trying to gain an advantage by taking a fellow driver off the race track so Ferrari can get the one-two, that where Verstappen needs to know he doesn’t have to do that. Just win in the cleanest possible way you can.”

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After his numerous clashes with Verstappen throughout the season so far, Norris’s chances at a drivers’ world title of his own have largely diminished.

Heading into Sao Paulo, the Briton trails the reigning world champion by 47 points, meaning he’ll need to outscore him by at least 12 points per race weekend to claim the title. It’s an unlikely run of results, given the narrow current performance gap between McLaren and Red Bull, only made more difficult by Verstappen’s self-sacrificial defensive efforts.

“I go into every race expecting a tough battle with Max,” said Norris. “It’s clear that it doesn’t matter if he wins or second, his only job is to beat me in the race. And he’ll sacrifice himself to do that, like he did today.

“But I want to have good battles with him. I want to have those tough battles like I’ve seen him have plenty of times. But fair ones. It’s always going to be on the line.

“It’s always going to be tough with Max. He’s never going to make anyone’s life easy, especially mine at this point of the year. But I think today [in Mexico City] was just… It was not fair, clean racing. And therefore, I think he got what he had coming to him.”

Max Verstappen Headshot

Verstappen is unlikely to hold back in his defence of the drivers’ world title

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While Norris regarded Verstappen’s penalty as a fair interpretation of the rules, others — particularly fans of his championship rival, and notably Max’s father Jos Verstappen — saw a trend of bias towards their favoured driver. Herbert’s British nationality and the fact that one of his fellow stewards, Tim Mayer, is the son of McLaren’s co-founder, Teddy Mayer, were seen as conclusive evidence.

“There always seems to be an issue about us British stewards being ‘biased’, but when we’re in that room, we abide by the rules and guidelines from the FIA,” said Herbert. “That is how we have to judge the racing on the track.

“To say it’s ‘biased’ is absolutely ridiculous and not the case. We try as hard as possible to be fair in our judgement. The issue we have is the tactics we see on the track, there are driving styles that are not deemed correct according to the guidelines, and the situation we had in Mexico showed that we made the right decision.

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“In Mexico, the stewards other than me were American, Belgian and Brazilian, all who have the same powers as each other. To say there’s bias is ridiculous.

“The stewards won’t change anything in Brazil. We have the guidelines and that’s what we’ll be sticking to. We will judge what happens on the circuit in the same way we have all season. The decisions and penalties applied have been pretty much correct the whole season; teams have come up to us after races and agreed with our decisions.”

With 33 points on offer for a sprint race and grand prix win in Sao Paulo, Norris will once again targeting a perfect weekend in an attempt to narrow his gap to Verstappen in the drivers’ standings.

But should the Briton find himself behind the Dutchman on the DRS-assisted run down to Turn 4, will his hope of clean racing prevail, or will Verstappen take a win-at-all-costs attitude and prove Herbert right?

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